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	<title>Comments for metablog</title>
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	<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org</link>
	<description>How can I use blogging and other reflective tools to increase the depth of my learning, and of my students' learning?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:25:44 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Vygotsky on blogging (almost) by Lindsay Jordan</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/05/12/vygotsky-on-blogging-almost/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/05/12/vygotsky-on-blogging-almost/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Aha - good question! I guess it&#039;s not so much &#039;speech&#039; as language itself - which includes our internal speech; the conversations we have in our heads.

Even people who are deaf from birth are capable of developing symbols for objects and actions - I would suggest that it&#039;s our innate intellectual capacity to use symbols to find abstract solutions that&#039;s important, rather than the exact form these symbols take.

This blog - particularly this first post - is rather old now... very much at the start of my learning journey about blogging, social media and learning. The project culminated in a shot video which you might find useful... hope so anyway! http://lindsayjordan.edublogs.org/2009/05/29/blogging-with-students-how-and-why/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha &#8211; good question! I guess it&#8217;s not so much &#8217;speech&#8217; as language itself &#8211; which includes our internal speech; the conversations we have in our heads.</p>
<p>Even people who are deaf from birth are capable of developing symbols for objects and actions &#8211; I would suggest that it&#8217;s our innate intellectual capacity to use symbols to find abstract solutions that&#8217;s important, rather than the exact form these symbols take.</p>
<p>This blog &#8211; particularly this first post &#8211; is rather old now&#8230; very much at the start of my learning journey about blogging, social media and learning. The project culminated in a shot video which you might find useful&#8230; hope so anyway! <a href="http://lindsayjordan.edublogs.org/2009/05/29/blogging-with-students-how-and-why/" rel="nofollow">http://lindsayjordan.edublogs.org/2009/05/29/blogging-with-students-how-and-why/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Vygotsky on blogging (almost) by Jo</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/05/12/vygotsky-on-blogging-almost/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/05/12/vygotsky-on-blogging-almost/#comment-16</guid>
		<description>just a question
if speech is so important, then how do mutes learn? or does speech mean all forms of communication such as sign language? in which case surely children have their own forms of communication.
and surely now we have computers, other forms of social networking would count too?

Jo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a question<br />
if speech is so important, then how do mutes learn? or does speech mean all forms of communication such as sign language? in which case surely children have their own forms of communication.<br />
and surely now we have computers, other forms of social networking would count too?</p>
<p>Jo</p>
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		<title>Comment on Show me how to reflect&#8230; by lindsayjordan</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/27/show-me-how-to-reflect/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsayjordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=17#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Hi Pete,

Yes - it does mean something to me. Further to my response to your comment on the previous post, I am beginning to feel strongly that rigour is at the heart of effective reflection - note that this happily also encompasses the question of honest reflection - and the input and involvement of a number of other parties naturally makes for a more rigorous evaluation of theory and practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pete,</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; it does mean something to me. Further to my response to your comment on the previous post, I am beginning to feel strongly that rigour is at the heart of effective reflection &#8211; note that this happily also encompasses the question of honest reflection &#8211; and the input and involvement of a number of other parties naturally makes for a more rigorous evaluation of theory and practice.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The problem with trying to assess reflection by lindsayjordan</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/26/the-problem-with-trying-to-assess-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsayjordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=16#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Hi Pete,

I think what you are getting at is that there is not much point in sitting around reflecting on stuff unless it results in some sort of change.

You&#039;re probably right. And if my ultimate goal is to improve my own learning and my students&#039; learning, then we&#039;re not just looking at some kind of open-ended reflective process - it also needs to be teamed up with the usual requirements for achieving change - a long-term goal, a timescale, some short-term goals, indicators to measure whether those goals have been achieved, and a clear and reasoned method for how they are to be achieved.

I guess that this is the root of the dilemma of assessing the reflective process. One school of thought might suggest that the success of a reflective process is measurable by the degree of change, or improvement in practice, that has been achieved. Another school of thought would claim that this way of thinking discourages true, honest reflection and encourages the misuse of &#039;reflective&#039; journals and reports to paint one&#039;s achievements in a favourable light. Therefore they would claim that the reflective process should be assessed entirely separately to the degree of change/improvement apparent in a professional&#039;s practice.

However, you then might return to the point that there is little worth in a reflective process that does not result in useful change, and, although we know that dishonest reflection is less effective, honesty does not guarantee effectiveness. Therefore assessing the actual reflective process is possibly a total waste of time. You might say that if a student or professional has been able to demonstrate positive change in their practice, it&#039;s likely to be partly down to effective reflection, but at the end of the day does it really matter how they did it, if it worked?

So, now that this initial stage of seemingly aimless contemplation is coming to a close, I&#039;ll at least be coming up with some goals and action points for facilitating change in my own practice as I am writing up my assignment for Understanding Learning and Learners, which - here goes, I shall commit to a timescale - I am intending to submit in draft form on Monday January 5th. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pete,</p>
<p>I think what you are getting at is that there is not much point in sitting around reflecting on stuff unless it results in some sort of change.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably right. And if my ultimate goal is to improve my own learning and my students&#8217; learning, then we&#8217;re not just looking at some kind of open-ended reflective process &#8211; it also needs to be teamed up with the usual requirements for achieving change &#8211; a long-term goal, a timescale, some short-term goals, indicators to measure whether those goals have been achieved, and a clear and reasoned method for how they are to be achieved.</p>
<p>I guess that this is the root of the dilemma of assessing the reflective process. One school of thought might suggest that the success of a reflective process is measurable by the degree of change, or improvement in practice, that has been achieved. Another school of thought would claim that this way of thinking discourages true, honest reflection and encourages the misuse of &#8216;reflective&#8217; journals and reports to paint one&#8217;s achievements in a favourable light. Therefore they would claim that the reflective process should be assessed entirely separately to the degree of change/improvement apparent in a professional&#8217;s practice.</p>
<p>However, you then might return to the point that there is little worth in a reflective process that does not result in useful change, and, although we know that dishonest reflection is less effective, honesty does not guarantee effectiveness. Therefore assessing the actual reflective process is possibly a total waste of time. You might say that if a student or professional has been able to demonstrate positive change in their practice, it&#8217;s likely to be partly down to effective reflection, but at the end of the day does it really matter how they did it, if it worked?</p>
<p>So, now that this initial stage of seemingly aimless contemplation is coming to a close, I&#8217;ll at least be coming up with some goals and action points for facilitating change in my own practice as I am writing up my assignment for Understanding Learning and Learners, which &#8211; here goes, I shall commit to a timescale &#8211; I am intending to submit in draft form on Monday January 5th. <img src='http://metablogger.edublogs.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The problem with trying to assess reflection by Pete</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/26/the-problem-with-trying-to-assess-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=16#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Lindsay - 

You say at the outset: &quot;I see blogging primarily as a tool for reflective learning&quot;. I tried a form of   blogging with Jack&#039;s Monday group back in the early 1990s when attempting to progress my dissertation - a sort of intellectual navel-gazing in the library (&#039;reflection&#039;) followed by the spasmodic publication of offerings (&#039;blogging&#039;) for consideration by the group. The final account contained the following realisation about why I wasn&#039;t learning anything new.

----------------------------  

Roderick (1986) helped me to uncover a further possible reason for my lack of movement …

&quot;.... The Enlightenment view, brilliantly expressed by Kant of the rational subject as an autonomous and self-dependent agent who was to examine and judge everything in independence from authority and tradition by means of reason courageously employed...&quot;

In my search … I was assuming that a paradigm shift … was to be completed by the simple employment of pure reason in a rather more courageous manner than usual. But I was treating myself as my own object of contemplation … My dilemma was that I had an incomplete awareness of my &#039;real material life processes&#039; … above all I was still regarding myself as an &#039;object of contemplation&#039; rather than as a &#039;field of action&#039;. I had placed myself in the position of a person who grasps themselves firmly by the hair and tugs hard; and then is surprised not to find themselves rising off the ground.

------------------------

Blogging seems to me to often be an essentially one-way process; how can you make sure that, despite the new media, you are managing to avoid my earlier problem of being your own &#039;object of contemplation&#039; rather than a &#039;field of action&#039;? 

- Pete</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsay &#8211; </p>
<p>You say at the outset: &#8220;I see blogging primarily as a tool for reflective learning&#8221;. I tried a form of   blogging with Jack&#8217;s Monday group back in the early 1990s when attempting to progress my dissertation &#8211; a sort of intellectual navel-gazing in the library (&#8217;reflection&#8217;) followed by the spasmodic publication of offerings (&#8217;blogging&#8217;) for consideration by the group. The final account contained the following realisation about why I wasn&#8217;t learning anything new.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-  </p>
<p>Roderick (1986) helped me to uncover a further possible reason for my lack of movement …</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;. The Enlightenment view, brilliantly expressed by Kant of the rational subject as an autonomous and self-dependent agent who was to examine and judge everything in independence from authority and tradition by means of reason courageously employed&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>In my search … I was assuming that a paradigm shift … was to be completed by the simple employment of pure reason in a rather more courageous manner than usual. But I was treating myself as my own object of contemplation … My dilemma was that I had an incomplete awareness of my &#8216;real material life processes&#8217; … above all I was still regarding myself as an &#8216;object of contemplation&#8217; rather than as a &#8216;field of action&#8217;. I had placed myself in the position of a person who grasps themselves firmly by the hair and tugs hard; and then is surprised not to find themselves rising off the ground.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Blogging seems to me to often be an essentially one-way process; how can you make sure that, despite the new media, you are managing to avoid my earlier problem of being your own &#8216;object of contemplation&#8217; rather than a &#8216;field of action&#8217;? </p>
<p>- Pete</p>
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		<title>Comment on Show me how to reflect&#8230; by Pete</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/27/show-me-how-to-reflect/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=17#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Lindsay –

I think that one of the last points you make:
 
“… I probably need to bear in mind … that existing models of reflective practice … have focused on reflection as a solitary activity rather than a collaborative one [Birney].”

frames an answer to the question you ask at the start i.e.:

“… What should I be doing in order to reach the deeper levels of reflection and therefore gain the most educational benefit from my blog - what kinds of questions should I be asking myself about my thoughts, feelings and ideas?”

My ideal is to live (i.e. have my practice/life)  situated within a collaborative community of practice.  Reflection takes place within dialogue / dialectical exchange which is the means of discourse used to generate new knowledge and understanding (as each member offers descriptions and explanations of their practice).

Hope this doesn’t sound too jargon-ridden and that it contains some meaning for you. Care to discuss?

- Pete</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsay –</p>
<p>I think that one of the last points you make:</p>
<p>“… I probably need to bear in mind … that existing models of reflective practice … have focused on reflection as a solitary activity rather than a collaborative one [Birney].”</p>
<p>frames an answer to the question you ask at the start i.e.:</p>
<p>“… What should I be doing in order to reach the deeper levels of reflection and therefore gain the most educational benefit from my blog &#8211; what kinds of questions should I be asking myself about my thoughts, feelings and ideas?”</p>
<p>My ideal is to live (i.e. have my practice/life)  situated within a collaborative community of practice.  Reflection takes place within dialogue / dialectical exchange which is the means of discourse used to generate new knowledge and understanding (as each member offers descriptions and explanations of their practice).</p>
<p>Hope this doesn’t sound too jargon-ridden and that it contains some meaning for you. Care to discuss?</p>
<p>- Pete</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do computers have an effect on the quality of students&#8217; writing? by lindsayjordan</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/24/15/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsayjordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=15#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Franco - when I first read your comment I was inclined to disagree with you about the laziness issue, as I felt quite strongly that the shift from handwriting to typing represents a shift in focus from presentation to content.

However, in the process of trying to type a response to your comment, I realised the value of planning what you want to say before you try to say it - something that people tend to do more when writing by hand (because they have to) than when typing (because they can edit as they go). So, in this respect, I think you have a point - because typing does allow for easy editing of drafts, we are getting lazier about planning what we want to write. However, I suspect that this often has a negative effect on our efficiency, rather than a positive one!

There are bloggers out there who claim that typing spontaneously helps them to clarify their thoughts. I wonder whether they would reach an even greater degree of clarity if they mapped out their thoughts first before starting to type? The answer is probably yes in some cases and no in others. The writer&#039;s perceptions of their audience will also come into play - some writers will need to be totally satisfied with the eloquence of their writing in order to feel comfortable about committing their ideas to the screen, whereas others will feel that they can benefit from the process regardless of how coherently they feel they&#039;ve communicated their thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Franco &#8211; when I first read your comment I was inclined to disagree with you about the laziness issue, as I felt quite strongly that the shift from handwriting to typing represents a shift in focus from presentation to content.</p>
<p>However, in the process of trying to type a response to your comment, I realised the value of planning what you want to say before you try to say it &#8211; something that people tend to do more when writing by hand (because they have to) than when typing (because they can edit as they go). So, in this respect, I think you have a point &#8211; because typing does allow for easy editing of drafts, we are getting lazier about planning what we want to write. However, I suspect that this often has a negative effect on our efficiency, rather than a positive one!</p>
<p>There are bloggers out there who claim that typing spontaneously helps them to clarify their thoughts. I wonder whether they would reach an even greater degree of clarity if they mapped out their thoughts first before starting to type? The answer is probably yes in some cases and no in others. The writer&#8217;s perceptions of their audience will also come into play &#8211; some writers will need to be totally satisfied with the eloquence of their writing in order to feel comfortable about committing their ideas to the screen, whereas others will feel that they can benefit from the process regardless of how coherently they feel they&#8217;ve communicated their thoughts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do computers have an effect on the quality of students&#8217; writing? by Franco</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/24/15/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=15#comment-10</guid>
		<description>What is interesting about this topic is that although we do produce a higher grade of work with the use of computers as we are able to write and rewrite or cut and past as required and our work can be shared with other through the use of technology deep down all this technology does reduce our ability towards spelling and grammar, it also reduces our skills towards hand written work. This could become a problem when written works like exam-based assessment are to be undertaken. Ideally one should achieve a balance of the two. Work written by hand used to be and art in itself not only from a point of view of presentation but also in its style or composition. An art that is slowing losing ground to technology thus making us all mentally lazy and yet more efficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is interesting about this topic is that although we do produce a higher grade of work with the use of computers as we are able to write and rewrite or cut and past as required and our work can be shared with other through the use of technology deep down all this technology does reduce our ability towards spelling and grammar, it also reduces our skills towards hand written work. This could become a problem when written works like exam-based assessment are to be undertaken. Ideally one should achieve a balance of the two. Work written by hand used to be and art in itself not only from a point of view of presentation but also in its style or composition. An art that is slowing losing ground to technology thus making us all mentally lazy and yet more efficient.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Too much information? by Ellie Clewlow</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/06/28/too-much-information/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie Clewlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=10#comment-9</guid>
		<description>There is a whole emerging field in economics around the issue of &#039;too much choice&#039; in a consumer society - arguing that humans can become so overwhelmed by the number of choices that lie in front of them, that they are unable to make any choice at all. There seems to be a parallel here with your thinking on the overload of data available through various media and hyperlinking. 

(At a personal level, a friend of mine posits that being a vegetarian is a relief when it comes to buying food in a restaurant or supermarket, because it narrows down her potential choices to a manageable level!)

As someone who in a former professional life made a living from information management, I would make a distinction between overload of DATA and our relationship with INFORMATION. For me, information has a structure and a context, whereas data can be an uncontextualised mass, difficult to process without such an organising principle. In essence, I&#039;m reinforcing your point on methodologies for structuring and processing - I just demonstrate my age and academic milieu by using a different analogy - a librarian or archivist doesn&#039;t necessarily know every item of information in their repository, but they have a structure or signposts for finding it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a whole emerging field in economics around the issue of &#8216;too much choice&#8217; in a consumer society &#8211; arguing that humans can become so overwhelmed by the number of choices that lie in front of them, that they are unable to make any choice at all. There seems to be a parallel here with your thinking on the overload of data available through various media and hyperlinking. </p>
<p>(At a personal level, a friend of mine posits that being a vegetarian is a relief when it comes to buying food in a restaurant or supermarket, because it narrows down her potential choices to a manageable level!)</p>
<p>As someone who in a former professional life made a living from information management, I would make a distinction between overload of DATA and our relationship with INFORMATION. For me, information has a structure and a context, whereas data can be an uncontextualised mass, difficult to process without such an organising principle. In essence, I&#8217;m reinforcing your point on methodologies for structuring and processing &#8211; I just demonstrate my age and academic milieu by using a different analogy &#8211; a librarian or archivist doesn&#8217;t necessarily know every item of information in their repository, but they have a structure or signposts for finding it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Do computers have an effect on the quality of students&#8217; writing? by lindsayjordan</title>
		<link>http://metablogger.edublogs.org/2008/10/24/15/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsayjordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metablogger.edublogs.org/?p=15#comment-8</guid>
		<description>...and I&#039;m thinking not only about the disjuncture between considered writing and immediate composition, but also the relevance (or not) of immediate handwritten composition to life. A well-worn topic of discussion, I know, but when, apart from in exams, do we ever need to (or want to) handwrite, within a limited period of time, and without referring to any eternal reference material, what we know or think about something? I&#039;d suggest that it&#039;s a skill that requires a good memory, a high degree of literacy and a good conceptual command of the topic, but I&#039;m uncertain about the scope of written examination skills beyond the exam hall. If exams took the format of oral vivas, I might concede that the assessor had a stronger case...

Thanks Ellie!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and I&#8217;m thinking not only about the disjuncture between considered writing and immediate composition, but also the relevance (or not) of immediate handwritten composition to life. A well-worn topic of discussion, I know, but when, apart from in exams, do we ever need to (or want to) handwrite, within a limited period of time, and without referring to any eternal reference material, what we know or think about something? I&#8217;d suggest that it&#8217;s a skill that requires a good memory, a high degree of literacy and a good conceptual command of the topic, but I&#8217;m uncertain about the scope of written examination skills beyond the exam hall. If exams took the format of oral vivas, I might concede that the assessor had a stronger case&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks Ellie!</p>
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